Paris Travelog #7 – A Melange
TweetPlease checkout Sukumar’s most previous serving of Paris here.
Say “Paris” and images of the French Revolution, the excesses of King Louis XIV and Napoleon Bonaparte spring to mind. Visitors to Paris will find “Haussmannian Paris” stickier still. Baron Haussmann was a town planner in Emperor Napoleon III’s reign. He almost single-handedly modernized Paris, changing it from a medieval town with narrow, chaotic streets & unsanitary living conditions – to a triumph of modern urban planning. He gave Paris a major make-over, with wide boulevards, geometrically intersecting streets, parks, bridges, modern sewers, water-works, wide open spaces – and beautiful buildings, with uniform facades, built with locally quarried limestone. Numerous buildings from Haussmann’s period are impeccably maintained.
Arguably, the most touching site we visited was the Shoah (Holocaust) Memorial, located in the Jewish Quarter in Le Marais. During WW II, almost 76,000 French Jews were rounded up & sent to Nazi concentration camps. Even the children & the elderly were not spared. Only 2,600 of them returned. The French police maintained detailed records of Jews – even those of their colleagues in the Police force. The shameful part played by the Vichy regime in the annihilation of its own citizens was not disclosed till 1995.
The most poignant parts of the Shoah Memorial are the Crypt & the “Wall of Names”. The names of people who died – and those presumed dead – in the concentration camps are engraved on the wall, alphabetized. I would strongly advise the sensitive & the weak-hearted to stay away from the wall. It was very painful, like being knifed in the stomach. The grim black crypt in the basement is shaped like the Star of David. It has ashes collected from the Warsaw ghetto. It is a reminder of the devil in all of us & how easy it is to lead us astray. All it takes is a mad-man with a cause.
I feel duty-bound to tell you that the 2 major shopping destinations in Paris – Au Printemps and Galeries Lafayette offer a 10% discount for all foreign tourists. Carry your passport to prove your domicile though. Here is the disclaimer: There are no tales of personal triumph from me, in clinching deals in either of the malls. France is very expensive. An intelligent South Asian would simply go to the Takashimaya store in Singapore for good deals. Or if the said smart South Asian is in North America, s/he is better off looking for steals in Canada or in the US of A. I’m thrifty by nature – I demand value for money. If you insist on splurging in France on over-priced items, go ahead. I won’t stop you.
One of the most enduring symbols of Paris is the Arc de Triomphe, with its “Tomb of the Unknown Soldier”. This monument is located at one end of the Champs Elysees, one of the most expensive avenues in the world. The largest Louis Vuitton store is located here, for e.g. Champs Elysees is sort of New York’s 5th Avenue & Times Square rolled into one. Here is where Parisians get together to welcome the New Year on Dec 31st.
Some of the snootiest shops in Paris – jewelers such as Boucheron, Van Cleef & Arpels, Cartier et al – are in PlaceVendôme. It is in the 1st arrondisement, the oldest part of Paris. In the center of this square is a monument erected by Napoleon – it stands sad & lonely like a gawky, self-conscious giant, amidst its glitzy & glamorous neighbors. Directly opposite the monument is the Ritz, one of the most luxurious (read: expensive) hotels in the world. I don’t even want to know their tariffs.
The 2nd most formidable street in Paris is Rue du Faubourg Saint Honore. Perhaps it is no coincidence that this is close to Place Vendôme. All the leading designers such as Hermes, Versace, Gaultier & co have their flagship stores here. The most famous resident of this street is the French President: The Elysee Palace, the official residence of the Premier is located here.
Which brings us to the most interesting President France has had in a long time. Nicholas Sarkozy is the son of Hungarian immigrants. Well, his father was a Hungarian aristocrat who moved to Paris. Did the French have any concern about electing someone of Hungarian descent? And his wife Carla Bruni is an Italian, though she’s a French citizen now. Does the fact that the 1st lady of France is an Italian bother the French?
Our questions were met with bafflement. How does it matter that Sarkozy is ethnically a Magyar? – They wondered. Or that Bruni was an Italian once. All that matters is that they’re French now, n’est-ce pas? Excellent, we said meekly. We felt like hugging them & giving them an air-kiss, French-style.
An often overlooked site in Paris is the Pantheon. It was built as a church, but it is known more as a crypt & for its starring role in a scientific pursuit: Foucault hung his pendulum from its dome to prove that earth rotated on its axis. A replica of the revered Foucault’s pendulum still oscillates in the Pantheon. The Who’s Who of French elite are buried in the crypt – For e.g., Voltaire, Rousseau, Emile Zola, Alexandre Dumas, Victor Hugo, Pierre & Marie Curie and Joseph-Louis Lagrange. We perked up when we saw Lagrange’s tomb. Amidst a sea of philosophers, writers & politicians, the mathematician-astronomer seemed like a kindred spirit to yours truly, both engineers by profession. We touched his tomb with awe & reverence.
While we loved the French for their open, liberal attitude and for preserving their heritage, they sometimes – many times – drove the author of this post crazy. I must have been a German in my previous life. Punctuality is my affliction. I may need therapy if I’m seriously late for an appointment. I plan & schedule even the minutiae, like Armageddon was tomorrow. And in France, time is elastic, stretchable. They don’t think anything about 30 minute delays. I did not expect this in a 1st world country. Please hold my paws, I get emotional just thinking about it.
I don’t know how the Germans occupied this country for any stretch of time. Technically speaking, they should have gone mad in a week. Tearing their hair & clothes, they should have run amok on the streets. But it took the Allied Forces landing on Normandy to drive them out. Hmmm – I’ll never understand it.
Sukumar will continue this series with another photo essay on Paris.
ha ha.. perhaps the germans needed a break from all the strict punctuality and war 🙂 really nice post Priya 🙂
Sriram – Thanks for your comment.
Invading France was a holiday for the Germans?! Man, I’ll never think about war in the same vein.
I found the laissez faire attitude very difficult to handle. When a trip of ours was delayed beyond 30 minutes, I asked the guide in my sternest manner – “When do you think we’ll leave?”. She said “We’ll leave when we’re ready”. I then asked sarcastically “Oh, and when will you be ready?”. To which she said – she said very sweetly, without sarcasm – “We’ll be ready when we’re ready”.
She thought that was a legitimate answer :cry:. Sukumar had to comfort me by getting me a coffee 🙁
Ha ha.. nice post and nice comment too.. Reading this travelogue made me feel as if I am reading a novel with historical characters…
Ananth – Thanks for your comment & kind words.
Nice post Priya. I was so thrilled to see the Foucalt Pendulum. Paris has a unique skyline which i think is unsurpassed in the first world. To think that that came about due to Haussman, a man from the 1800s, makes it all the more fascinating.
Sukumar – Thanks for your comment.
Yes, Paris is unique, isn’t it? I’m peeved that Indians neither care nor maintain our heritage buildings, save a few stray cases.
yeah. India has a long way to go in preserving many aspects of our heritage including historic buildings.
/** Our questions were met with bafflement. How does it matter that Sarkozy is ethnically a Magyar? – They wondered. Or that Bruni was an Italian once. All that matters is that they’re French now, n’est-ce pas? Excellent, we said meekly. We felt like hugging them & giving them an air-kiss, French-style.
**/
Wait.. wait.. pls ask them about the ban on burqa before the air-kiss.. 🙂 🙂 🙂
I could understand the inner meaning in the above quote.. 🙂 (pls forgive me, if you did not intend that)..
French and Italians and hungarians are like Kannadigas or mallus or telugu of india.. they have affinity and they are all europeans..
In tamilnadu, MGR is a mallu, Rajni is a kannadiga, current CM Karunanidhi’s mother is from andhra.. Yet no problems with us..
Excellent write up Priya. Waiting for Sukumar’s photo essayto see Shoah,Arc de Triomphe etc. Even though there are many difference between France and German, they both love each other because of soccer and beer (after WWII though) 🙂
Senthil – Thanks for your comment.
You understood my comment right. Why would I ask them a question about the ban on the full-face veil – which only applies to some places – when I think the ban is theoretically right & it makes sense? Where I think they went too far with the law – there are an estimated 2,000 women who cover their faces in France, a nation that has 5 Million Muslims. They didn’t achieve much by passing this law.
And number 2. Your comparison is invalid. Kannadigas, Malayalis & Tamils are all Indian Nationals. Hungarians & French are not from the same nation. If you argue that Europeans are similar – even that is a stretch, there are 50 countries in Europe & only the Western European nations have a similar heritage.
So, what the French have done is similar to a Srilankan immigrant’s son – named Lasith Samarasekara – becoming a Prime Minister in India, marrying a Bhutani immigrant – named Jamyang Singye Wangchuk – working in India. Now, would that happen in India?
Give credit where its due 🙂 🙂
Senthil,
One minor correction. Rajini is a Marathi brought up in Karnataka. Now before we start gloating too much, MGR, Rajini, Karunanidhi’s mom are all naturalized Tamils. They have lived in Tamilnadu for eons. Yes I do agree that Tamils have been more broadminded in electing MGR or eulogizing Rajini than what would be typically expected but because they are naturalized Tamils its not such a big deal. Another problem, TN is one state in India, what about other states? Can a non-native become CM of another state which is ethnically or linguistically different? Or can a Punjabi Sikh become a CM of Tamilnadu? I doubt it. As Priya says let us give credit where it is due. The French are quite broadminded in accepting a Hungarian immigrant’s son as their PM. Now don’t twist this argument by saying Manmohan Singh has become PM. That is because at the national level regional identities are less important.
Subba – Thanks for your comment.
France & Germany love each other. Wow, what a statement. Probably true, I don’t know. Except where Alsace is concerned 😉 Dunno if it extends to Sarkozy & Merkel either, aren’t they at loggerheads in EU summits?
Sukumar – I think some states like Tamil Nadu are more broad-minded than others. You’re right, would Karnataka elect a Bengali CM? Or, would Maharashtra elect a Manipuri CM?
When people say India is like Europe, they’re only partially right. The political, geographical, historical, linguistic, artistic, ethnic & religious diversity is much higher than between the states in India.
The closest parallel is to see how Indians would approve of another South Asian in a similar position. Even that’s not a fair comparison, since there are very few South Asian countries, while Europe has 50 member nations.
After all, Europe is 3 times as big as India. Its bound to have more diversity.
You are right. Though on the surface of it India seems diverse and it is, it is not as diverse as Europe. Before we gloat too much, let us face it – we have too many issues due to religious/linguistic/ethnic chauvinism/bigotry.
Great post Priya ..An interesting take on Germans.
But I have a difference on opinion Priya.I think India has not been tested with that immigrant issue.So with all due respects to Indians I would like to give a benefit of doubt to our fellow citizens.If Rahul Gandhi does manage to become a PM it will be close to Sarkozy’s case,so i feel we should wait and watch here.If our folks oppose his candidature based on Italian roots I would agree with u.
I agree with u and Sukumar that India is not same as Europe as we our territotial defintions are totally different.If India can be compared then we should do it with of the African Nations like say SA.
Karthik – Thanks for your comment.
I think India is by & large moderate, tolerant & accepting of diversity. For most people, Rahul Gandhi’s part-Italian parentage may not be a problem at all, I think.
But how is Rahul Gandhi similar to Sarkozy? Pal Istvan Erno Sarkozy, the father of the President, was a Hungarian aristocrat who moved to France. Rahul Gandhi, also the son of aristocrats, is the scion of the Nehru-Gandhi family.
Sarkozy does not come from a French political family. Whereas, the Gandhi-Nehru family has been in politics for many generations. Their name – for the right or wrong reasons – is a brand name in India. I don’t think Sarkozy enjoys any such benefits.
If Indira Gandhi was a non-entity in India named, say Indira Patel; and she had a daughter named Rajeeva Patel; who married an Italian aristocrat Antonio Maino; Antonio & Rajeeva Maino settled in India; and the couple had a son named Raimundo Maino – and if India elects Raimundo Maino as the PM – then yes, his case is similar to Sarkozy’s.
Since that’s not the case, I have to politely disagree. Yes – As a nation, India is a pretty decent place. Even though we have a growing fringe that preaches bigotry. I think France has gone a few steps ahead in Sarkozy’s case. And I think we should appreciate them for that & learn from them.
/** You understood my comment right. Why would I ask them a question about the ban on the full-face veil – which only applies to some places – when I think the ban is theoretically right & it makes sense? Where I think they went too far with the law – there are an estimated 2,000 women who cover their faces in France, a nation that has 5 Million Muslims. They didn’t achieve much by passing this law.
**/
Something is missing in the above quote.. 🙂 🙂 the usual clarity of priya’s writing 🙂
Ok.. Let’s face the truth of human species.. any one will be comfortable only with a friendly and related culture.. It holds true for any country/nation.. France & Hungary shares a common religion and highly interrelated history and culture.. So its not a problem for Sarkozy to become french or the french to accept sarkozy..
Can any one from arabia or iraq or morocco become a president of france or will the french people accept them? Or lets say, any tamil people from pondichery become the President of France..
The entry pass for politics in Most european nation (partial exception is UK) is that they should be a christian.. We have seen that in recent american election too..
Do we dare to accept this plain truth.. ??
/** Give credit where its due **/
I have no problem in giving credit to the french.. what i am insisting is that we need to analyse the general psyche of the communities and cultures..
I also would like to highlight the following important line of your post..
All that matters is that they’re French now, n’est-ce pas? Excellent, we said meekly.
The above line explains everything else.. 🙂
Sukumar,
/** Though on the surface of it India seems diverse and it is, it is not as diverse as Europe. **/
I am really interested to know more in detail, how Europe is more diverse than india. i really want to know your perspective
/** You’re right, would Karnataka elect a Bengali CM? Or, would Maharashtra elect a Manipuri CM? **/
Will karnataka oppose a bengali CM? All that it requires is the opportunity for a bengalie to do politics in karnataka and that he imbibes the kannada ethos..
/** So, what the French have done is similar to a Srilankan immigrant’s son – named Lasith Samarasekara – becoming a Prime Minister in India, marrying a Bhutani immigrant – named Jamyang Singye Wangchuk – working in India. Now, would that happen in India?
**/
Priya.. I can accept Jigme Khesar Namgyel Wangchuck (the king of bhutan) or king Gyanendra or Bhumipol adulyadej (the king of thailand) to head my country.. or at the worst, i can even accept Rajapaksha as PM of india ..:) .. but not an italian implant..
Do you see the cultural & historic connection here?
/** If you argue that Europeans are similar – even that is a stretch, there are 50 countries in Europe & only the Western European nations have a similar heritage.
**/
At the time of independance, we had around 560 princely states.. ie, if a genuine freedom has been there, there would be 560 kingdoms/nations within india..
While comparing europe and india, we have to take the historical background in to consideration..
Even My comparison of tamil vs mallu vs kannadiga vs telugu itself is wrong.. These are artificial creations just 50 years old, too short time for a culture to emerge..
So for a fair comparison, we have to consider the historic kingdoms/empires/regions in to consideration.. konkana, marathwada, coorg, telengana, royalaseema, bhundelkhand, pataliputra, mitila, sourashtra, chola naadu, pandya, thondai naadu, kongu naadu, chera naadu, etc, etc…
These are the identitites that we have to use if we want to compare it with Europe..
Senthil – In the light of the new-found bond of respect we have for each other, I have to impose a few simple rules.
1. Do not post a flurry of comments. That makes you appear agitated & militant. Post 1 or 2 comments, wait for a response, then react further.
2. If you don’t understand something, read again calmly. If it looks like there could be gaps in your knowledge, please try to remedy that first.
France & Hungary don’t share that inter-related a culture. I’m not sure you appreciate the differences between the various cultural blocks in that continent. It is terribly beyond the scope of this post to cover the cultural history of Europe. You have to read up on that yourself, with an open mind.
I didn’t say the French are perfect. Quoting extreme examples – of Arabs settled in France – does you no credit.
The artificial creations you talk about are the states. The fact that the cultures & the languages are different – is something I can attest to from my personal life, as the ancestral state of my mother & father are different.
I’m delighted to hear that you won’t object if Mahinda Rajapaksa becomes the PM of India.
Since you don’t seem to understand my point on face veils – a point that others seem to have understood – here it is. I disapprove of face veils. But passing it as a law is needless, since < 0.1% of the Muslim women in France use it. Trust that's clear enough.
Sorry for the inconvenience.. I will compile all my thoughts in one comment in future.. I will abide by your rules 🙂
Senthil,
I could be wrong here, but judging from your comments it appears as if you think if a nation is christian it has the same culture as all other christian nations. There are 2 ways of looking at this – first way is that we can agree that yes if a nation is christian or islamic, they all have the same culture as other nations of the same religion. However, that would lead us to say that because India is predominantly Hindu, India has the same culture and hence there is no diversity. I am sure you won’t agree with that.
The other way is to look deeper at the culture. the term culture is extremely complex and it includes a multitude
of parameters. Since you want to look at religion as the only basis for culture, i want to point out something in the area of religion. Christianization or Islamicization or for that matter Hinduization almost always involves the amalgamation of local culture/beliefs etc. To give you just one data point, Hungary is amongst the last countries to be christianized and it completed only in the 14th century, several centuries later than when France was christianized. just from that data point, you can get a sense for how different Hungary and France could be.
“To which she said – she said very sweetly, without sarcasm – “We’ll be ready when we’re ready”.”
haha ha 🙂 That sounds typically Indian in fact 😛 But on a holiday, I personally wouldn’t be worried about getting late except to the airport for the return journey!
Besides, did you folks do a guided tour or something? Looking back, would you rather do anything differently on the trip? Like take it a lot slower/faster/skip a few places? Or even do things on-the-fly sorts? I don’t recall you mentioning how you planned the tour but could you give any tips on organising a tour around the city based on your experience? Of course, even erstwhile IT professional turned grad students don’t have access to funds like current IT professionals 😛
Sriram – Yeah, I need to loosen up on holidays.
We had a guided tour for some of the sites. But the rest, we could do on our own – thanks to the Fodor’s guide, a map of Paris & its excellent Metro system.
We spent 7 days in Paris, I think that’s an optimum time to spend in the city. We would most certainly skip the city tour. It was a rubberneck tour & a waste of our time. Likewise, 1 boat ride on the Seine is enough. In spite of clear instructions, we were booked on 2 of them.
We planned the tour by reading up on Paris & listing down places that sounded interesting to us. Then, we created the itinerary by fitting in the “must-see” places. I can send you the list of top sites & attractions, if you think that will be helpful.
Hotel rates are very high in Paris. Likewise, food is somewhat expensive. The Latin Quarter would be the best place to stay (according to people in Paris). The rooms are smaller, but the rates are very good & there are many pocket-friendly dining options. And its also closer to many attractions.
Hi!Priya!a very interesting post and as usual it is informative.
Actually I would love to have Baron Haussmann in Pune to change the design of congested roads with suffocating traffic.:(
Why are u puzzled at the idea on how germans could occupy France for such a long period with so much differences.u have a live example in front of u.:-) Rajendra must have been a german in his previous life and I must have been a french in my previous life(as far as punctuality and elasticity of time is concerned:-))))
Are we not getting along with each other well;-) .actually that makes life more interesting:-)))) may be that’s the reason germans stayed in France for a long period;-))).anyway,very nice post priya!
Padma – Thanks for your comment & kind words.
Every city in India needs a Baron Haussmann, I think. Sadly, people destroy heritage building to construct fugly buildings designed by the “Mestri”.
>>actually that makes life more interesting
It makes it interesting for the French. Have you ever thought about how the Germans feel? We’re crying & no one thinks about how we feel 😥
Hmm. I guess I’ll start out pretty much the same way, list all the places around europe i definitely want to go to. And then cull from there. Will definitely get in touch when I start the planning phase 🙂
Nice one, Priya!
i guess it muct have been a soul stirring time at the ‘Wall of Names’. //reminder of the devil in all of us & how easy it is to lead us astray. All it takes is a mad-man with a cause.// I totally agree with you.
Wow: the French are super cool in not letting the nationalities of their president and first lady not bothering them! I guess we all need to learn that from them!
//Technically speaking, they should have gone mad in a week. Tearing their hair & clothes, they should have run amok on the streets.// ROFL!!!!!
Sriram – Sure, I’ll be delighted to be of assistance.
Arvind – Thanks for your comment & kind words.
While the wall of names is a sad remnant of the devil in all of us, at least the world has acknowledged & condemned what Nazi Germany did to the Jewish people. The Kurds, Armenians & countless others have been denied even that.
I agree, the French are uber cool.
Sukumar,
I fully agree with you, that a culture is extremely complex to define. Religion alone cannot be defined as a culture.
What i was mentioning was that Religion is the Common Cultural denominator of the Europe. In that sense, the people are already bonded by a common practice of worship.. All other elements of culture, like arts, dance, music, food, etc give the diversity of europe.. Hungary was first
Apart from the above, the following factors also account for cultural affinities.
* The historical invasion of kingdoms over one another are an important factor in cultural amalgamation. Hungary was part of the Roman empire.
* Marriage of princess b/w kingdoms, which used to happen before Parliamentary system was found.
* geographical nearness .
* Trade routes
* Alliances made during wars..
* Relation of languages and a common root. Greek & Latin are sources of major development in european languages. (pls correct me if i am wrong)
Thus even though culture is very complex, we find that religion plays a central role in uniting them.. It is because of the same reason, Turkey could not be accommodated within the European Union.
The case of India and Europe was different in many respects, some of which i am listing below.
1. There was no centralised religion in india, except for jainism and Budhism. Hinduisation is a highly ambigous term, often the word Hindu equated with Vedic religion. Its an entirely different topic to explore.
2. Both Europe and India faced muslim invasion and muslim rule. But in Europe, they reconverted to christianity through reconquista. Particularly spain was ruled by muslim kings for around 800 years, but spanish reconquista reconverted most of the muslims.
However in india, even though initial invaders came for looting wealth, the later kings inherited the political structure of india, thus establishing a muslim rule. Till Britishers the muslim rule existed, partly because there is no concept of conversion or reconversion, and hence the reconquista. Even the king Shivaji who is the icon of hindu renaissance fought only against muslim kings.
That is why, in india, there is a larger acceptance of muslims in Politics even today, which is completely absent in Europe.
Historically, during 1857 War, the revolutionaries marched towards Delhi to fight under the leadership of Bahadur Shah. And during the peak of Maratha empire, much of the Rajputs sided with the Delhi kings to face the maratha army..
Such kind of secular polity was absent in Europe..
Hence i feel, a direct comparison of Europe and India is not a fair thing.
Senthil,
You say you agree with me, but then say, religion is a common denominator. I argued that it is not a common denominator. Please make up your mind. if religion is a common cultural denominator then by that token India is Hindu and hence no diversity.
Senthil – Please make up your mind. Europe can either be compared with India or not. You compared Europe with the states of India in your 1st comment – and mentioned how the Tamils have accepted a Malayali CM. And now you say comparing Europe with India is not fair.
And please stick to the point, let’s avoid tangential discussions & detours. We’re not talking about Spain, a Latin Christian nation before & after Muslims. We’re talking about Hungary, a Magyar nation, whose natives speak DO NOT speak a Indo-European language. Sinhala & Marathi are more closely related to other European languages than Hungarian.
As I mentioned before, you can’t trivialize the cultural, linguistic & racial diversity of Europe by taking a Western European nation as an example. That’s a straw-man model – easy to knock off & hardly accurate.
I don’t see where this discussion is going, anyway. I wonder what you will say in rebuttal if I point out that the state of Louisiana has an Indian governor. Perhaps you’ll say that Bobby Jindal became a Christian when he was 15 years old, so people voted for him. Maybe. The fact that they overlooked race, country of origin & ethnicity to vote for him will be conveniently swept aside. Anything to avoid giving credit to other nations when its due.
Priya, I agree with many things you have said, but I find it insulting when you say India is not as diverse as Hungary and France.
I am not sure if you been to India or how much you know about it, but for starters, India is made up of more racial groups than Europe. There are more than five different racial groups living in India. In Europe you mostly find European racial group, but in India there are the Indo-Europeans (Mediterraneans), Negritos, Negroes, Proto-Australoids, Mongoloids. (These are major racial groups, some minor subgroups also exist).
Not everybody in India shares the same cultures as you say, South India is vastly different from the North, and they both are quite different from the East and West in every aspect including geographically, historically, linguistically, artistically, ethnic as well as religion (don’t clump all Hinduism as same, there are quite a lot of variation, but I don’t want to get into it, it is beyond the scope of this post to cover cultural variation of Hinduism in India).
“The political, geographical, historical, linguistic, artistic, ethnic & religious diversity is much higher than between the states in India.”
This is a big disrespect to India when you say something like this. I don’t know how many states you been to, but I have traveled a lot myself. You could easily compare India to Europe. The only thing Indians share among themselves is political. Imagine if all the countries of Europe, with their different customs, culture and language, were asked to vote in a general election to nominate a single party to represent them all. It probably couldn’t be done. But if you can imagine that, then that is India. I think this deserves a little credit if you ask me, bit more than France electing a Hungarian.
I’m not sure you appreciate the differences between the various groups of people living in the Indian Subcontinent. So i urge you to maybe pick up a book about India or do some traveling yourself, keep an open mind, I’m sure you will learn to respect the diversity that exists in India.
About me: I’m from London. I have a degree in Aerospace Engineering from University of London. I have traveled extensively around India, and have many Indian friends. I am currently working in Bangalore and have been here for the last 4 years. I have picked up some Tamil and Telugu, and have read a lot about India before coming here and I still read a lot about India.
Peter – Thanks for your comment.
I’m an Indian living in Chennai, Tamil Nadu. I’ve spent almost 30 years of my life in India. I lived in the US for 10 years. I can safely say that I know India very well. In my spare time, I research the history & genography of India & Srilanka, with special focus on early history.
You seem to be enjoying your stay in India & have a healthy respect for Indian culture. I’m glad your experience in working & staying in India is positive.
I disagree that what I said is disrespectful in any way or form to India. There’s something very wrong if opinions are taken as an insult. This is a free country & I have a right to my opinion, like everybody else.
I doubt if I need a book to know about India & the different groups of people 😉 Though I do have a decent-sized library, with books on the culture, history & literature of India & art from various parts of India.
BTW, Indians have a lot more in common than political structure. It has been so for millenia.
/** I doubt if I need a book to know about India & the different groups of people **/
Priya.. I bet, we need a book to know more about india.. NOT just book, but a whole lot of research in to indian culture and customs, and a elaborate documentation.. ( If you dont agree this, its ok.. if you want to challenge my stand, i am ready 🙂 .. probably in a different post )
Right from independance, indian culture is Never taught in the schools or colleges.. Today, much of indians are ignorant of their own culture.. ( i mean the culture of their community)..
Secondly, i would consider peter’s view of india as an important one.. As an outsider, and having stayed in india for around 5 years, we should consider his views, to know how people of other countries look at us.. Its just like an individual knowing himself through others..
Peter,
Thank you for your inputs about india.. I have myself realised the so much variations in my community with in few districts.. People of my community staying some 200 km away have a lot of variations in customs, language, speaking style, and attitude. There are around 140 registered subsects in my community, and more than 200 community temples each with its own customs and traditions.. Our community mostly resides in the western tamilnadu of around 12 districts..
If such a small region could have so many variations, we could imagine the whole of india..
To cite a contrasting difference, people in our community still practice animal sacrifice in our community temples.. whereas, the Brahmin community to which Priya belongs to, have entirely different customs and rituals.
Sukumar,
Do you mean that if there is anything common, then there is no diversity? My stand was, that a religion alone doesnt constitute a culture, but it is an important part of a culture..
Let me elaborate my understanding.. The whole of europe (except for turkey) follows christianity. Christianity is a centralised religion, with authority residing in Vatican. Although there are different groups in christianity (like protestant evangelical, pentacostal etc), all of then believe in the same bible, and the same Jesus.
All christians, attend weekly congregations. All christians celebrate christmas, ester, goodfriday throughout europe in the same way (probably some exceptions).. the mode of prayer is almost same in all churches.. every christian worships in the same manner..
There are some more common practice, which i could not remember..
Now, does this NOT form part of each culture.. I am saying only part.. and the rest is unique to each nation..
So essentially, christianity has become a primary binding layer over the diverse cultures and races of europe and have given a common identity, and thus connecting all of europe.. by saying this, i do not mean, there is NO diversity..
We cannot say the same for India, because Hinduism is NOT a monotheistic religion like christianity.. To quote an example, till today, the culture, religious practice that my family following varies largely from that of your family.. If we take the sample size of this sastwingees community , i believe the difference would be seen obvious..
/** Perhaps you’ll say that Bobby Jindal became a Christian when he was 15 years old, so people voted for him. **/
Priya.. that is the truth.. If Bobby Jindal is not a christian, he could not have entered politics itself.. Imagine, even Obama has to struggle to identify himself as a christian to stand for presidential race..
Let’s accept the reality and truth..
/** you can’t trivialize the cultural, linguistic & racial diversity of Europe by taking a Western European nation as an example. That’s a straw-man model – easy to knock off & hardly accurate.
**/
I am not trivializing the cultural, linguistic and racial diversity.. indeed i accept and agree those.. what i am saying is that religion plays a central role in uniting Europe, and hence the acceptance of the hungarians/italians by french..
PS: i have a question here.. will french would have accepted sarkozy, if he still have sticked to his hungarian culture? From your own statements in this post, the french could accept him, because he has adopted french culture.. Does this not sound supporting me 🙂
Senthil – Interesting, do you have a similar need/urge to learn about other countries/cultures?
Peter seems to think he’s the only one who has read books on India. I merely pointed out that I have several on India in my personal library.
How many modern education systems focus on the culture of a country, that too the culture of their community? Schools cannot teach children everything they need to know. Then, what’s the role of the parents? I’m not saying schools are perfect now, but have you validated your expectations? Anyway, that’s a tangential discussion.
I wonder what you would think if you heard my neighbor’s view of India. He’s from Finland, worked & lived in India for 3 years, has some good things to say & some not so-good. Would you be this accepting of views from that outsider, when they don’t match your views? Just curious.
Senthil,
Going by your line of thinking, all Hindus goto temples, worship gods in the temple, have images of gods in their homes and worship them, chant mantras, quote from the vedas/gita, celebrate hindu festivals etc. In essence, Hinduism is a binding layer on top of the local practices. Same as what you said about Christianity. I would urge you to read up some more about Christianity, various denominations etc. In fact, you don’t need to go very far, just drive over to Kerala which is a few hours drive from where you live and understand about the various denominations there. And then we can have a discussion.
And we have not even begun to talk about ethnicities (genetics), language families, climatic conditions etc. At this time, i suggest you write a post on your own blog on this topic comparing Europe’s diversity with that of India.