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Disclaimer: It should be fairly easy to figure out our employer’s names. We have not put it here to show that this is a personal blog. Any opinions expressed here are our own. Any actions you take based upon anything you read in this blog is at your own risk.
1. Ganesh – works in software engineering as an architect for a certain company that loves the blue color and lives in the Bay Area. BITSians may recognize him as the BITS Cricket Team captain.
2. Sukumar Rajagopal – works in the software industry in Chennai, India as SVP/Head of Innovation for a consulting company that uses the offshore/global delivery model. Most recently he served as the Chief Knowledge Officer (CKO) for 3.5 years with the same firm. Has over 21 years experience in offshoring/global delivery model, 14 of which has been in the current firm. Thanks to his clients and their teams, his team(s) have delivered over $200MM dollars of software in 10 years without major failures using the global delivery model. Can be reached at rsukumarATgmailDOTcom.
3. Sibu Kutty – works as a Program Manager in the software industry and based in Chicago, USA. He is a colleague of Sukumar and is very passionate about technology and the travel industry.
4. Priya Raju – worked most recently as a Director in Cognizant’s Training department – Cognizant Academy. She is Sukumar’s spouse and is very passionate about history, culture and writing as well. You can see her writings in the Fiction category. She runs a Social Entrepreneurial Venture – Kinbahn Solutions which she started with 2 partners in early 2009.
History of this blog:
This blog was started to improve the communication amongst wingees (last at front wing Ashok Bhavan) of BITS Pilani from the 1984 batch. All of us mostly from the EEE branch although this group does include some people from other branches and also now includes another BITSian from a later batch. This blog experiment continues to survive due to continuous contributions from Ganesh and Sukumar, Priya and Sibu.
Change Log for the Blog:
Moved the blog to WordPress and changed the look and feel of the blog. It is a tradition on this blog
to change the look and feel in the Fall season of every year.
November 13, 2007
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Changed the look and feel of the blog for Fall 2006 season. This is a tradition on this blog.
Sukumar, September 3, 2006
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Added an explore link to the blog banner area to point to the category tree. Took out the category tree from the main page to reduce clutter.
Sukumar, March 26,2006
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Changed the blog to a 2 column layout. Per many bloggers it makes the blog more readable.
Sukumar, November 13, 2005
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To make it easier to follow the Unsung Blogger series, added a Unsung Blogger Blogroll to the favorites section. Although only 10 Unsung Bloggers have been featured, since each one points to upto 5 other blogs,
we have close to 40 blogs on this list now!
Sukumar, November 6, 2005
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As announced earlier, we have started a new series – Unsung Blogger of the Week in response to “The Blog 500 Challenge”. Look forward to hearing your comments.
The color scheme of the blog has been changed for Model Year 2006. We may make a few more layout changes to reduce the clutter.
Sukumar, September 11, 2005
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Having been associated with the media and the automotive industry for a while, we are going to copy them and introduce a new look and feel for the blog every fall starting this fall September 2005.
We are also going to start a new series to respond to the “The Blog 500 Challenge” – premiering Fall 2005.
Thank you wingees and readers for your continued support and encouragement.
Sukumar, August 27, 2005
Entries
I welcome all comments on the following:
The Quirky, Engimatic Shifting Historical Data of an ‘Aryan Indus’ Civilization
With the demise of the theory of an Aryan invasion, scholars have now taken on the idea that the Indus Valley Civilization is aryan in nature and origin. But this quirky idea cannot seem to hold well with the evidence which the archaeological explorations have produced in recent years. On one hand the civilization of the Vedas don’t seem to fit or to use a better word, correlate with the discoveries of the Indus valley excavations. There are several reasons this is so and proponents of an ‘Aryan Indus’ although they may reject the invasion idea, are desperate to paint an ‘Aryan Indus’ which certainly did not exist and are prepared to shift historical data to accommodate its ‘Aryan Indus’. Thus, an ‘Aryan Indus’ would seemingly but impossibly accommodate and comprise of the following:
1) TWO sets of lifestyles, one described as nomadic and steppe like in the Vedas quite in contrast to the settled and urban life of the Harrapans. Here we have the IE or Aryans as you will, riding and warring as all nomads do on the plains of India, whilst the staid citienzry of the Indus are basking in luxurious trade with its neighbors.
2) TWO modes of transport, of which the speed of the horse and chariot used by the nomadic intruders to settle disputes and in sports, whilst in the Indus the rich and contented people travel with the donkey and heavy wooden cart.
3) TWO religions, first we have the Vedic religion dominated by warrior gods and nature gods to a nomadic people always praying for wealth and cattle and animistic in nature. The other religion is the Harrapan religion of the Indus people mostly connected with the animal kingdom and iconic.
4) TWO sets of astronomic literature, the Vedic astronomy having the horse as one of its symbol and which is missing in the Indus one. Then, there is the Harrapan astronomy whose people were well versed in its intracies and very established.
5) TWO languages of which we have the Vedic language well refined and used in ancient India, called Sanskrit. The other is the undecipherable Indus Scripts and its seals, still unbroken and a fascination for linguists. Used by the Indus people for its unparalleled value for its tremendous and burgeoning trading partners.
6) TWO different funerary burial rituals, the Aryans cremated their dead through libations in the hope their loved ones reach the land of the Fathers. The Indus people buried their dead as is evidenced by the cemeteries discovered in their civilization.
7) TWO eminent Indian scholars, Professors Jha and Misra among others have claimed to have deciphered the Indus language and its complicated writings. If this is true and world breaking , how come we don’t know what is the true nature of the Indus? All of these concerted attempts, so valiant and persevering seems to come to naught. So I ask, what is it? Vedic or indigenous Indus? One thing is certain though. All these failed attempts are done from the perspective of the Sanskrit language. Wrong, I say. All linguists should know that to decipher a language, there must be a related Rosetta Stone or a related root language. Obviously, the linguists of India are finding out that the Indus Scripts and seals are not related to Sanskrit, thus there is an ominous silence.
This is fantastic , here we have a civilization just emerging from the Stone Age with its brilliance and is credited with ALL of the above, a double of every facet of human life. Is this possible? This quirkiness of an’Aryan Indus’ has western and eastern scholars and historians baffled. To speak of an ‘Aryan Indus’ with such glaring contradictions in its society and lifestyle is probably a minor embarrassment to its proponents, for what can be more embarrassing than to shift historical dates to accommodate a quirky theory? Best of luck to its proponents.
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Thereare many other questions.
1. Why the Vedic literature mentions only the fruits and vegetables of India. If the Aryans were from Central Asia, they would be expected to know of apples and onions. But in India they are of recent origin.
2. For migrating, Aryans would need to drive chariots over the rugged mountains. They could not do so.
3. If you read Ramayana and Mahabharata, a few things strike. During the Ramayna age, horse was not properly domesticated. Even the great king Ravana yoked donkeys. During Mahabharata, horse was fully domsticated. During Ramayna, elephant was yet to be tamed, in Mahabharata you find it TAMED.
In fact the horse was a rarity, so much so that it was a precious gift to be offered in horse sacrifice.
During Ramayana, Rakshasa were quite a formidable military and political power co-existing in hostililty with Aryans. In Mahabharata they were hardly a power, and few Rakshas kings perished in the battle and the race was practically extinct after that. Who were they?
The above facts point to a BIG, BIG time gap between the two periods.
4. A complex and developed language like Sanskrit could be developed by sedentary philosopers and liguists, but not by nomadic tribes on the move.
Free ranging horsemen could still be part of the cultures settled in permanent cities. No logical reason behind it. Not every member of Aryans was required to be a philosoper and linguist. Ellites and commoners have existed in every culture throughout the history of mankind. Why Aryans should be an exception??
If Harappans were non Aryans and supplanted by the Aryans then the Harappans have to older than the Ramayna period.
RC Sharma, Namaste, I don’t have much time to reply to you but you said the
following: ‘Migrating Aryans would need to drive chariots over the rugged mountains
They could not do so.’ You seem to forget Hannibal and his elephants who drove his
animals over the Alps WHICH are very much higher than the mountains of
Afghanistan in the Hindu Kush. Now, couldn’t the Aryans pack up those light chariots
on wagons and come over those mountains , irrespective of what Dr. Frawley says?
I know most of you believe in him , I don’t.
2) The IVC citizens were the most innovative and brilliant for the age they lived in.
They kept meticulously records of all of what they traded. And you know they
traded everything under the sun. They were brilliant mathematicians, in
calculations, pedantic in commerce, in record keeping, astonishingly superb in
astronomy and used probably the first writing system in the world. Our ancestors
did all this in addition to building a modern civilization to house themselves. So tell
me. A man like Dr. Frawley and others should have some common sense that if
the form of the horse has not been excavated from the ruins or etched anywhere
else in the Indus cities, couldn’t they have the honesty and clarity of mind to tell the
world the the horse and chariot did not exist at the Indus and not revert to fraud.
Then, isn’t it logical that if no such thing has never been found so far, then the Indus
is not Aryan? These are only a few things I am mentioning. The blog I have written
above , I would like to see if anyone can refute it or criticize it. Those are the hard
facts of the supposedly ‘Aryan Indus’ Give me your take on it.
The Rig Veda was composed thousands of years ago. We don’t seem to be sure about the context in which it was composed, nor the intent behind it. One should also consider the possibility that it is not meant to be taken in a strict literal fashion.
This is really interesting. 🙂 I fell in love with the first look at this blog…..added up into the feed reader at the instant.
THEANAND, I AM GLAD YOU LIKE THE BLOG AND I HOPE OTHERS WHO ARE INTELLIGENT AS YOU ARE COME ON THIS WEBSITE TO MAKE THEIR COMMENTS WHETHER IT IS NEGATIVE OR POSITIVE. ALL IS WELCOME.
Depinder and RC Sharma, Namaste, You both make some good points and I agree but my sole point is this: We have two different people in the Indus region with different customs, rituals, religion, funerary rites, philosophy and astronomic outlook on life. If the Indus and the Aryans are one people and civilization then why aren’t the archaeological remains of horses and chariots found in its ruins? What I mean is if the civilization was established from 3000 years ago as the academicians say, then , there should be a tremendous amount of remains of horses, chariots, artifacts and other such stuff used by not only the Aryan Indus builders. But as we all read and see, only artifacts used by the Indus people are unearthed by the archaeologists. The claims that bones of horses are found in the Indus is, I think untrue. I can’t see the Aryan Indus people, not leaving remains of a horse culture as they fled the cities. The attempt to move the historical data of the Aryans back to around 3000 to accommodate an Aryan Indus is intellectual dishonesty. Another strange thing is this: We all know that the Indus civilization collasped as a result of earthquakes and floods and the people deserted the cities. But if the Indus is or/was Aryan, why only the Indus people disappeared and not the Aryans? And they lived on to spread Hinduism with their language and religion.
Now, for argument sake, an Aryan Indus people would have fled with their horses and chariots but we have no attestation of this in the other clans that occupied other parts of India. The Vedas did not mention any such event that a whole civilization fled their homes. Again, if there was an Aryan Indus its eerily to believe that a civilization produced two religions, two rites and rituals, two astronomic literature, two languages, of which one is spoken and one undeciphered. It just does not make any sense, of a people composing a brilliant and scintillating language as Sanskrit with a refinement no other language possesses and another as baffling as the concept of the origin of man. Can you see an Aryan Indus speaking one language and the other as enigmatic as their disappearance? Why should they want another language when they were supposedly speaking one as beautiful as Sanskrit? I think the academicians who advocate this concept of an Aryan Indus are having a mad hatters tea party! Oh! One other point. If you can remember the Vedas mentioned the story of Dadhyanc and the horses head and the honey story. Well, Russian made a chilling discovery on the steppes of a man buried with a horses head on his shoulders , exactly as described in the Vedas. This was considered a myth in the Vedas and this discovery has only strengthened the authencity of the Vedas among other things. I could go on and on about the resemblances of the lifestyle of the Aryans and their steppe life on the steppes, but time do not permit. Thanks for having the patience to read my blog.
The Indus Valley Civilization: Its Reality and Maddening Prevarications of Academia.
Ever since the discovery of the IVC, the rush to Aryanize its society and culture has
filled books, papers, media forums and other such articles and such entities has
funded and encouraged historians and writers to let loose their imaginations in order
to rewrite the history of India. The fierce debate whether the IVC is Aryan or not
has opened up emotions and a stirring of nationalistic feelings among Indians of
different social and political persuasions and has led to the rewriting of some history
books. Even though the undertaking and exposing of the vast archaeological
empire of the Indus still remains buried below the ground, opinions and speculations
still persist that further and more radical change be made to the history of India.
The proven point that the Aryans did not invade India and that horses existed in its
society are two areas juxtaposed between the migrationist theories and those who
proposed an “Aryan India” Between this sliver of Aryan and Indus woodwork, lies
the heart of the matter, its linch-pin— the horse. Whoever can prove that the horse
existed at the Indus empire will cap a belated crowning glory and achieve at the
same time a kind of immortality in Indian history. The playing with historical dates
like pushing them back further in time sounds like Russian roulette in order to
achieve the inevitable and if such a hand can be played and the horse can be
accommodated to form Indian history as among other things, thus far are historians
are willing to go. The claims of historians and other writers of horse remains has so
far has not been proven or recognized by some of local and international academia,
even though such claims have been taken up by readers of different sorts of books
and articles. The horse have remained evasive to not only archaeologists who
would know one when they have analyzed its bones but to those who advocate its
existence at the Indus. The so called tentative discovery of horse bones in the cities
of the Indus, is the one weakness of those who want to weld Aryan history and Indus
history together. This, I think will fail. The Indus civilization does not have a
mythology that speaks of the existence of horse and chariot. First of all, all peoples
have from their beginnings tales of mythology and from this, their civilizations are
born, their society evolves, their beliefs entrenched and their livelihood maintained.
Without these a people may not survive as a strong entity such like the Greeks and
the Indian civilizations. Mythology is the fountain of a people, where a kind of fairy
tale comes down to generation after generation, where images of the mythology are
graven in the minds of its citizens and from which stories of daring and derring do
are told. Greek mythology is filled with horses such as Pegasus and Arion, so we
know that the Greeks knew about horses, Helios, the Sun god and the horses and
also the Trojan horse. Our Hindu civilization also has a mythology of horses of the
Sun, as well as other places mentioned in the Vedas and the Swat culture is one of
the first places that the horse appeared in India. But can that be said of the Indus
civilization? Where is the mythology of the horse and chariot in its ancient belief
system? The belligerent screaming and writing by academia of horse bones in the
Indus does not prove anything. There is not a shred of evidence of a horse culture
or part of a mythologic reference to a horse or chariot in the history of the writing of
the Indus nor in its society and the isolated claims of nationalistic writings has no
foundation whatsoever. Claims of horse presence in the absence of a mythology in
comparison with Hindu or Greek is not only a failure, but a historical greed to fulfill
nationalistic grandeur for India which would be penitently false. I am sure Hindus
would not like to incorporate a false version of historical data in their proud history.
I personally would abhor such a travesty.
neville, sad sad sad. To have such a blogger among this wonderful sastweingees group. You are using high sounding words in the hope that you can hoodwink people who are really doubting the aryan origin in India. First you start with some sentences which will misdiect others into thinking that you may be crticizing the people trying to claim aryan origin of Indus valley. Then you change the plate like magic.
Horse bones in Indus valley? and the proven point? that Aryans did not invade? and horses existed?
I am disgusted.
Hi emmarcee, I’m honored to receive your comment and I’m so sad that you are disgusted. But disgusted about what? You didn’t make the point or points that you are disgusted about. Anyhow, if you can prove to me that the Indus people possessed a mythology of horse worship, then I may acknowledge your anger. But you or those who believe that the Indus is Aryan in origin cannot simply point to such evidence for your arguments. Even your most brilliant historians and writers and archaeologists cannot prove this. Your reply was too short and it represents the frustrations of those in academia who up to this year still cannot produce the evidence of an Aryan Indus. We are still waiting.
Emmarcee, why don’t you write a piece to try to convince me of your idea of an Aryan India? If you think that I use high sounding words, well I can’t help myself. The English taught me well. Even if you think it is propaganda! Remember, the truth must be protected by a bodyguard of lies. If you don’t know that simple maxim , then you should not indulge in writing. Looking forward to your disgusted reply.
Neville – Please post your comments in the relevant blog post. The About page is not the right place for your comments on the Aryan-Dravidian conflict.
Any further comments on the Aryan-Dravidian conflict in this page will be moderated out. Thanks for understanding.
emmarcee – Thanks for visiting our blog.
Please see my request to Neville above. The Aryan-Dravidian conflict is addressed in the following posts:
http://www.sastwingees.org/2008/02/24/the-real-history-of-india-part-6-aryan-invasion-theory/ and
http://www.sastwingees.org/2008/03/01/the-real-history-of-india-part-7-chariots-horses-and-thunderbolts/.
Please add your views on the conflict in those posts. Thanks for your cooperation.